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Jan. 4, 2025

Interview with Scott Powell

Interview with Scott Powell

Happy New Year everyone! Our first guest of the year is Scott Powell. Homeschooler, historian and self-described, "nomad capitalist."

He is the author of three books, most notably, The History of Now, and The History of Tomorrow. We cover these topics and more. Give it a listen!

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Episode 93 (55 minutes) was recorded at 1700 Central European Time, on January 2, 2025, with Alitu's recording feature. Martin did the editing and post-production with the podcast maker, Alitu. The transcript is generated by Alitu.

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Transcript
Scott:

Foreign.



Blair:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the secular Foxhole



Blair:

podcast.



Blair:

Today, Martin and I are thrilled to have a gentleman who actually reached out to me to



Blair:

come on the show.



Blair:

That's like the first time, I think that's



Blair:

happened in all our episodes.



Blair:

Scott Powell is an objectivist and historian living a, quote, nomad, capitalist lifestyle



Blair:

in Mediterranean Europe.



Blair:

He is the author of the History of Now and its sequel, the History of Tomorrow, which



Blair:

together present his integrated view of history, which he refers to as present



Blair:

centrism.



Blair:

Excuse me.



Blair:

Along with his partner Heather Schwartz, which I hope I pronounced correct, he is the co



Blair:

founder of Knowable World, the world's only fully integrated history curriculum for



Blair:

students from kindergarten through 12th grade.



Blair:

He is currently working on a science fiction novel about time travel and the true power of



Blair:

history entitled the 14 Points.



Blair:

Welcome, Scott.



Scott:

Nice to be here.



Scott:

Thank you.



Blair:

All right, nice.



Blair:

Now, what do you mean by this was a new



Blair:

concept to me, Present centrism.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

Well, it's certainly a neologism.



Scott:

So in other words, I had to invent the term because I simply could not find an adequate



Scott:

way to represent my thought concerning history.



Scott:

And so the, you know, the basic idea is that typically the serious study of history is



Scott:

considered to be the study of the past.



Scott:

And the unserious study of history that has kind of been spawned by a variety of



Scott:

ideological movements in, in modern times is really focused on the present, very much at



Scott:

the expense of the past and very much, you know, dependent on prejudices and



Scott:

presuppositions in the, in the present.



Scott:

And then there's the process of cherry picking and, and all of the typical things that



Scott:

corrupt what serious historians, quote, unquote, serious historians consider to be the



Scott:

proper study of the past.



Scott:

And you can see in both of these options, which are the two, basically the, the four



Scott:

false dichotomy that currently dominates the study of history.



Scott:

You can see that on the one side you have the past, which historians are dedicated to,



Scott:

serious historians are dedicated to, but the problem is at the expense of the present.



Scott:

And then you have people that are activists, have a variety of reasons why, but they



Scott:

emphasize the present, of course, at the expense of the past.



Scott:

Well, what's missing, of course, is a proper integration of the two.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

We could simply refer to that as past, present



Scott:

integration.



Scott:

And so that's what present centrism is about.



Scott:

Present centrism, if you want me to give you a



Scott:

formal definition, it is a mode of historical inquiry that seeks to achieve an integrated



Scott:

historical awareness of the world we live in.



Scott:

There's a lot to unpack there, but basically that's what it is.



Scott:

You can see the object of study is not the past.



Scott:

The object of study is the world we live in.



Scott:

The past doesn't exist anymore.



Scott:

Right? Okay, it once existed.



Scott:

That's an important thing to recognize.



Scott:

But why does it matter? Why it matters is because of how the well of



Scott:

cause and effect has brought us to where we are now and where it's taking us.



Scott:

And so we live today.



Scott:

There's only one reason for us to study the



Scott:

past.



Scott:

That's in order to empower us with the



Scott:

knowledge that it can provide us the insight and instruction that is available by studying



Scott:

this amazing spectrum of experiences that all of humanity has gone through and deriving what



Scott:

we need from it, right?



Scott:

Finding some positive mental intellectual outcomes from it and allowing us to navigate



Scott:

through the world and hopefully to shape it for the better.



Scott:

So that's where we are.



Scott:

We're in the present.



Scott:

We need to live well.



Scott:

And so the idea of present centrism is we need to be able to use the past, not merely study



Scott:

it as an end in itself, but to use it as a means to an end, to better shape the world we



Scott:

live in.



Blair:

Very, very good.



Blair:

Now, I hope I'm not jumping around too much,



Blair:

but you use the terms Americanism and Americanistic, they may be in one.



Blair:

One in each book.



Blair:

Do you want to jump into that for me?



Blair:

Or is that.



Scott:

Well, I mean, so this is, you know, an example of periodization.



Scott:

So in other words, one of the critical things that has to be done with the past, which of



Scott:

course, is a plethora.



Scott:

It's a vast ocean of facts which typically



Scott:

overwhelms the student.



Scott:

And of course, you and I, and just about anybody listening can remember studying



Scott:

history and being forced to rote, memorize a whole bunch of useless stuff.



Scott:

Stuff and then regurgitate that for.



Scott:

In order to pass the test and then promptly forget it and then develop, you know, this.



Scott:

This perspective, of course, that history is useless.



Scott:

And the problem, of course, is though, that because history is vast, essentially about



Scott:

5,000 years worth of decent recorded information because it's so vast and because



Scott:

it involves so many cultures that we have to have a method of organizing, condensing and



Scott:

essentializing the vastness of it so that we can render it into something useful now.



Scott:

So, you know, because there you go, right? Present centrism, the goal is to.



Scott:

For us to.



Scott:

To embody the idea that knowledge is power.



Scott:

Well, how can we generate powerful knowledge?



Scott:

So in the.



Scott:

In the problem of studying History, we



Scott:

encounter something that I know some of your listeners are interested in.



Scott:

Ayn Rand.



Scott:

Ayn Rand, as a philosopher, fascinating.



Scott:

Gave us fascinating insight into the importance of concepts in terms of how they



Scott:

allow us to condense our perceptual experience and arrive at this really powerful conceptual



Scott:

level of awareness.



Scott:

As it turns out, with regard to history, which is a massive stream of one of a kind events



Scott:

which are linked in this web of cause and effect, there's a different problem.



Scott:

It's a problem that is not quite akin to the need that we face on a general basis of



Scott:

processing the concretes that we find in our experience and integrating them into concepts.



Scott:

There's a different problem.



Scott:

There is a problem of this absolutely unique



Scott:

stream of events, a procession and succession of events that are constantly unfolding.



Scott:

And how do we.



Scott:

How do we render that into some sort of useful mental outcome?



Scott:

And I discuss this on a theoretical level as part of the History of Tomorrow.



Scott:

Broadly speaking, I refer to the need to employ what I refer to as constructs.



Scott:

Now, there's a. We could probably spend an entire podcast on what are the difference



Scott:

between concepts and constructs.



Scott:

I don't think it's probably the best place for



Scott:

us to go right now.



Scott:

But periods, historical periods, are examples of constructs because they are composed of



Scott:

absolutely unique events which combine in some way.



Scott:

We have to mentally integrate them in order for them to add up to something, use.



Scott:

And to now circle back around a little bit to your original question in order to take now,



Scott:

American history, relatively short compared to, let's say, Chinese history or something



Scott:

else.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

So we're talking 1776 word, if we're going to



Scott:

be strict about it.



Scott:

There's the colonial period before that.



Scott:

But, okay, let's talk 1776 onward.



Scott:

Well, that's still, you know, we're coming up



Scott:

on 250 years worth of stuff, right?



Scott:

And so that's a lot.



Scott:

And most people try to memorize a few things



Scott:

and forget and can't integrate.



Scott:

All right, so how do we integrate those



Scott:

things? Well, first of all, we have to definitely be



Scott:

selective about how we approach it.



Scott:

And the foundation of the method of periodization that I employ in present



Scott:

centrism is to identify what I refer to as anchor facts.



Scott:

And so that's the beginning of the answer.



Scott:

There are certain facts.



Scott:

Let's talk about the biggest one of all.



Scott:

1776, the 4th of July, 1776.



Scott:

To my mind, the single most important anchor



Scott:

fact, what I call a cardinal anchor fact with regard to world history at this time.



Scott:

The reason Why I say that is because it's an America centric world.



Scott:

And so the United States is overwhelmingly the most important country in the world.



Scott:

It's not a matter of good or bad.



Scott:

We all know it's also good.



Scott:

But it's a matter of what is the significance



Scott:

of American culture in terms of shaping the world.



Scott:

And it's overwhelmingly the most important.



Scott:

And so where does that come from?



Scott:

How did that come about? Well, the 4th of July, 1776 clearly is an



Scott:

anchor point we want to talk about eventually.



Scott:

We want to recognize, of course, the fullness



Scott:

of something called the American Revolution and so many other things.



Scott:

But basically, how did there even come to be an America?



Scott:

Well, of course, there's a birthday.



Scott:

And so the country got started at a certain



Scott:

point, Right.



Scott:

And then there are other anger facts that have



Scott:

brought about the transformation of American culture into what it is today.



Scott:

And there have been, to my mind, two overarching successions.



Scott:

There was an original American culture that of course, was dedicated to individual rights.



Scott:

We have the classic statement in the Declaration of Independence concerning life,



Scott:

liberty and the pursuit of happiness.



Scott:

And we have other statements by the founders as well that are really wonderful.



Scott:

And we see that.



Scott:

We see also, unfortunately, the inability of



Scott:

that generation and later generations of politicians to abolish slavery.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

So we have a strange problem.



Scott:

We have a contradiction embedded in what I refer to as American culture, the original



Scott:

incarnation.



Scott:

And there are other elements to that as well.



Scott:

There's. There's political economy, There.



Scott:

There are a number of other dimensions that



Scott:

can be thought of.



Scott:

There's the level of industrial development.



Scott:

There are a variety of factors that go into the construct that I refer to as the American



Scott:

period.



Scott:

And in my view, that period basically ended in the.



Scott:

In simple terms, with World War I, at which point America began to exhibit a number of new



Scott:

cultural traits.



Scott:

Up to that point, its foreign policy was one



Scott:

of political separation as embodied by the Monroe Doctrine.



Scott:

And then America began to embark on this quest to quote, unquote, Quote, unquote, make the



Scott:

world safer.



Scott:

Democracy.



Scott:

Actually, that's not an exact quote.



Scott:

It's always hard to quote that one because



Scott:

Woodrow Wilson said the world must be made safe for democracy.



Scott:

So we have to carefully quote.



Scott:

But.



Scott:

And then, of course, you know, there was a backlash.



Scott:

And then America began to, you know, got dragged into World War II.



Scott:

And then there's the Cold War, and now there's.



Scott:

There's been the war on Terror and all of that.



Scott:

That's foreign policy as well.



Scott:

The United States became focused on civil



Scott:

rights rather than Natural rights.



Scott:

The political economy shifted from one of



Scott:

encouraging industry through mercantilism to now one of regulation and a mixed economy and



Scott:

growing elements of socialism.



Scott:

So you can see that there are a variety of trends.



Scott:

And when you try to encompass those and say, okay, we've got one way that America was at



Scott:

the beginning, and we still have America, but it's clearly not the same thing, well, how do



Scott:

we then, you know, how do we then capture that fact?



Scott:

And so I refer to the more modern inter incarnation of the United States as



Scott:

Americanistic.



Scott:

If I can.



Scott:

I'll just elaborate on that just a little bit, because I think there's something powerful



Scott:

here.



Scott:

Please, some of your.



Scott:

Some of your listeners will enjoy.



Scott:

The reason why I adopted that terminology is because in my studies of history, I came upon



Scott:

a really interesting periodization by another thinker.



Scott:

And actually it was a delimited one.



Scott:

It was meant to be one that was applicable



Scott:

only in the area of art history, but it really struck me as being more widely applicable.



Scott:

And so it was the work of a German historian named Droysen, Gustav Droysen, something like



Scott:

that.



Scott:

And what he identified was that back in



Scott:

ancient Greece, there was a succession of two different fundamental artistic styles.



Scott:

And he referred to the first as being Hellenic.



Scott:

In other words, you know, the essential one, the.



Scott:

The one of Praxiteles and.



Scott:

And the other, you know, great sculptors of



Scott:

that era.



Scott:

And then he said, after Alexander the Great, he referred to the.



Scott:

The merger and hybridization of Greek art with Asiatic elements as Helenistic.



Scott:

So you can see it as interesting.



Scott:

What he's trying to say there is that there



Scott:

was something essentially Greek and then there was something else which was derivative and



Scott:

involves some sort of mixture and hybridization and unfortunately also a



Scott:

downgrade.



Scott:

And he called that Hellenistic.



Scott:

So that's a terminology that I really found



Scott:

empowering.



Scott:

And I said to myself, well, that's exactly



Scott:

what happened to America.



Scott:

America had this original culture, which in



Scott:

terms of fundamentals and especially on an aspirational level, as expressed by the



Scott:

founders, is really as good as it ever got.



Scott:

And now we have this lesser version, and it's got all of these elements in it, especially



Scott:

from Europe.



Scott:

The hybridization of American culture, the



Scott:

invasion of European ideas, especially the social theory of rights as advocated during



Scott:

the French Revolution by Rousseau and then the thinkers of the French Revolution.



Scott:

And then you get this organization and this takeover, because Europe's always been more



Scott:

intellectual than America.



Scott:

And so there's a lot of powerful ideas



Scott:

circulating in European culture all the time.



Scott:

And America's had this way of being the younger kind of prodigal culture.



Scott:

But it's always kind of been getting closer and closer and losing its distinctiveness and



Scott:

becoming more European.



Scott:

So that's my thinking.



Scott:

Is that similar this year?



Blair:

Let me just throw something in there that, I mean, for me, I've noticed the



Blair:

default, if you will, is always whenever there's a big crisis here, we fall back to



Blair:

religion, we fall back to ancient religious ideas instead of, you know, instead of



Blair:

exploring, oh, why did this happen?



Blair:

You know, and using our intellect and using our.



Blair:

Does that make sense to you as far as the periodization?



Scott:

Well, I would say that.



Scott:

Well, I don't think, you see, that's a



Scott:

difficult one because if you look at the trajectory of American political culture, you



Scott:

can't see.



Scott:

Find a dominant religious strain in it.



Scott:

What you see is the Founding Fathers.



Scott:

And there, there is, of course, the, the idea



Scott:

of, of, you know, individual rights being God given, natural rights.



Blair:

Yes.



Scott:

But in, in the founders, in thinking of the founders, there's a. There's an element of



Scott:

deism there which kind of, you know, the idea being that God is somehow necessary as an



Scott:

Aristotelian prime mover, but then basically is retired.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

And he's just, he's just taking in the



Scott:

metaphysical dividends and just, you know, sitting on the couch.



Martin:

Hands off.



Scott:

So it's, it's not really dominant.



Scott:

And now we have, of course, influence of



Scott:

religion.



Scott:

Absolutely.



Scott:

It's.



Scott:

It's undeniable and we see it in, in many.



Scott:

But it's not a dominant element.



Scott:

It's one that's difficult to factor in.



Scott:

And it's one that really, for me, is an area of continuing study because I'm always



Scott:

interested in the most fundamental and most powerful trends.



Scott:

And then, if possible, I like to see if I can investigate, well, what's feeding into that



Scott:

and what are some of the conditioning aspects.



Scott:

And I would.



Scott:

That's the way that I would characterize religion so far in American politics as being



Scott:

a conditioning element, not a dominant element, but always present, always



Scott:

conditioning things, you know, and so we could refer.



Scott:

We could talk about that in relation to progressivism.



Scott:

We could talk about it in relation to conservatism.



Scott:

You know, you can see it.



Scott:

Right?



Scott:

You can see it, but it's not always obvious how does it play into the development.



Scott:

So. So it's not a basis of periodization for the time being in my thinking, but it's just a



Scott:

recognized conditioning element.



Blair:

I see, I see in, in your first book, the History of Now, you do break it down into



Blair:

into great things.



Blair:

Let me just.



Blair:

Let me.



Blair:

I want to throw this word at you.



Blair:

Supranationalist, Europe.



Blair:

Can you delve into that?



Blair:

Yeah, because that's a word I don't.



Scott:

Think I've ever heard, so.



Scott:

Oh, okay, good.



Scott:

Well, you know, so basically, European history, of course, is very complex.



Scott:

Europe is, in my treatment of Europe, which I gotta tell you, Europe is, for me, as a



Scott:

historian, Europe is my Everest.



Scott:

Okay. In other words, it's the most complex and significant cultural block in world



Scott:

history by far.



Scott:

And so you've got, of course, these



Scott:

overwhelmingly important cultures of Germany and France.



Scott:

These are the really core nations of Europe.



Scott:

And then you've got this very strange element



Scott:

of Britain and how does it relate?



Scott:

And then you've got these adjunct cultures which play a role and, you know, every once in



Scott:

a while rise to prominence, like Italy and Spain and so on.



Scott:

But typically, it's a Franco German condition that dominates the history of Europe.



Scott:

And so in my.



Scott:

In my presentation in the History of Now, I



Scott:

tried to ask myself, well, how do we properly characterize the history of Europe?



Scott:

Because it's very easy to get totally dragged into the past at the expense of the present



Scott:

when you're studying Europe, because you're talking 1500 years now, so it's already a



Scott:

problem when you're dealing with the United states, which is 250 years.



Scott:

But if you want to start the history of Europe, let's say, with the fall of the Roman



Scott:

Empire in 476, when you're dealing with 1500 years, okay, so now you got a big problem.



Blair:

Right.



Scott:

And so, you know, I would say that the, The.



Scott:

The. The kind of standard or classical way of dealing with this is to refer to the first



Scott:

thousand years, let's say, as medieval and then modern.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

Okay, but this is kind of empty.



Scott:

What do you mean modern exactly? And what.



Scott:

What matters about being modern? Right.



Scott:

And, and so in my view, I came to the.



Scott:

I came to this view that European history is



Scott:

best understood currently because present centrism demands that it be characterized



Scott:

according to what we need to know now in order to navigate through the world we live in it.



Scott:

Basically, the question of European history is where did the European Union come from?



Scott:

This is what the Europe fundamentally is today.



Scott:

This is the dominant construct in politics and in culture.



Scott:

Right. And what does the European Union represent?



Scott:

Well, it represents something very technical, Europe, always very ideological and very



Scott:

complex.



Scott:

It represents an ideological point of view



Scott:

which is known as supra nationalism.



Scott:

So supra means over and above.



Scott:

Above and clearly the root word nationalism,



Scott:

right, is the point of view that the nation, fundamental unit of reality and standard of



Scott:

value in human affairs.



Scott:

And so the.



Scott:

The issue is that the history of Europe all



Scott:

the way up until the World wars, was the history of separate and increasingly mutually



Scott:

alienated nations, right? The tribes coalescing into countries, early



Scott:

kingdoms and so on, always wars, wars, wars.



Scott:

We've got the extra element, here we go, a good example of religion as a conditioning



Scott:

factor.



Scott:

We have the element of the Reformation and



Scott:

religious wars, introducing sectarianism.



Scott:

And so we've got all of these various factors



Scott:

producing alienation.



Scott:

And then while in modern times you have the advent of the freedom French Revolution, so



Scott:

now you get politics as alienating.



Scott:

Everybody gang, young ganging up on France.



Scott:

You've got, of course, Britain with its own traditions, staying relatively separate.



Scott:

And so you've got all these various factors leading to the Europeans always being at war.



Scott:

I mean, that's why the founders.



Scott:

That's why George Washington said, let's not



Scott:

get entangled in that mess, right?



Scott:

Let's stay at it.



Scott:

That was his farewell address.



Scott:

He said, we.



Scott:

We stay out of those wars.



Scott:

And.



Scott:

And James Monroe, of course, followed that up



Scott:

with the Monroe Doctrine and basically said, the political system of Europe is



Scott:

fundamentally different from that of America.



Scott:

There's no benefit to us getting entangled in that.



Scott:

And so that's why America's original policy of political separation was so valuable to the



Scott:

United States in, in terms of Europe, though, right?



Scott:

They just kept going, going.



Scott:

It got worse.



Scott:

There was paired with imperialism and then it.



Scott:

It culminated in the crescendo and the climax



Scott:

of the world war, World War I. And then that doesn't resolve anything, largely because of



Scott:

America.



Scott:

And then you've got World War II, which of course is the catastrophe, at which point.



Scott:

And leading up to that, there was already some thinking along these lines.



Scott:

Internationalism, meaning fundamentally diplomacy, this hadn't cut.



Scott:

It wasn't working.



Scott:

The League of Nations, none of that managed to



Scott:

really put a dent in the alienation of the various national peoples and their collective



Scott:

identifications then.



Scott:

So they said to us, how do we.



Scott:

How do we solve this problem, right? And so they said, we've got to.



Scott:

Now, the Europeans have never been able to shed collectivism.



Scott:

And so they've all.



Scott:

It's always been a very collectivist culture.



Scott:

And so basically what they came up with was, we've got to have some greater good, that



Scott:

we're going to some identity that is overarching, that permits us to suppress the



Scott:

alienating factor of nationalism.



Scott:

What's that going to be.



Scott:

It's going to be Europe as a whole, something



Scott:

over and above of the nation as a fundamental value.



Scott:

So that's what's ideologically referred to as supra nationalism.



Scott:

And, and if you look at the history of now, you can see, okay, they did a prototype of it.



Scott:

It's called the European Coal and Steel Community.



Scott:

The whole idea there was put the government of the, of the.



Scott:

This new union in charge of these industries so that we can ideologically transform our



Scott:

thinking about how we use resources and make war materially impossible, supposedly.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

And.



Scott:

And then they kept on working on it.



Scott:

They created the European Community, and then it gradually evolved and, and in 1993, they



Scott:

just went all in with the European Union.



Scott:

And, you know, that's what we have today.



Scott:

Of course, what we have today is largely a crisis.



Scott:

And in its present form and the ways in which it functions, it's not viable in the long



Scott:

term.



Scott:

And there's a lot of reasons why, fundamentally, it's collectivist, so it's



Scott:

always going to be a problem.



Scott:

But also the European Union, you'd wish that



Scott:

it would be in some way truly dedicated to freedom.



Scott:

And it has some elements which are positive, such as freedom of travel within the European



Scott:

Union and things of that nature and free trade within the European Union.



Scott:

But these are very much collectivists.



Scott:

So it's a tariff barrier that insulates Europe



Scott:

from the rest of the world, and then there's the Schengen Zone, which insulates Europe from



Scott:

the rest of the world.



Scott:

And so it's really.



Scott:

Now it's organized.



Scott:

It's trying.



Scott:

The idea is to organize Europe into a peaceful



Scott:

whole, but create a cultural block that can stand on its own and largely also supposedly



Scott:

stand up to the United States.



Scott:

But as it turns out, it's not working in any.



Scott:

It's not working in so many regards that it's,



Scott:

it's, it's going to be a long, long road here.



Scott:

A lot of problems.



Scott:

I'm not predicting that it's going to collapse entirely, but it's in trouble.



Scott:

It's in trouble.



Scott:

If you want to talk details, maybe that's



Scott:

another podcast.



Scott:

Let me throw.



Blair:

I'll throw a small curveball then.



Blair:

How did you yourself discover objectivism?



Blair:

And then over the years, how did you learn or discover your present love of history and so



Blair:

on and so forth?



Blair:

Yeah. Et cetera, et cetera.



Scott:

Yeah, absolutely.



Scott:

Oh, well, thanks.



Scott:

That's a fun story to tell.



Scott:

So, yeah, I mean, I first read Ayn Rand in.



Scott:

Let me get this right 1996, 19 in 1990s.



Scott:

And if I'm getting that right, so I might be off by a couple years.



Scott:

And I was in college at the time.



Scott:

I was studying engineering.



Scott:

And I don't mind, I laugh when I tell this story, so it'll be all right.



Scott:

It's a little bit traumatic.



Scott:

I failed my first class in engineering because I was relatively smart guy, but I didn't



Scott:

study.



Scott:

I never studied.



Scott:

And so I just could get away with it in high school.



Scott:

I didn't care.



Scott:

And so I got to college and the difficulty level went way up and I failed my first class.



Scott:

And that was my wake up call.



Scott:

And, and so I said to myself, okay, how am I gonna grow up, right?



Scott:

How am I gonna put.



Scott:

Pull this back together here?



Scott:

And I have this promise.



Scott:

You know, one of the things that I can be thankful for in.



Scott:

My father was somewhat of a, an eclectic intellectual and, but he had strangely made



Scott:

mention of Ayn Rand at one point and, and, and, and purchased a book for me called the



Scott:

Early Ayn Rand.



Scott:

And it was on the shelf, I wasn't touching that.



Scott:

He was very critical of my own reading, which was entirely science fiction.



Scott:

And so it was like, for me, it was all about Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke and, you



Scott:

know, Robert Heinlein and that kind of stuff.



Scott:

And so it's like, okay, Ran character floating



Scott:

around.



Scott:

Okay, I don't know what that's about.



Scott:

But you know, at that point where in, in my,



Scott:

in my college career where I flunked out of a class and I was like, okay, I gotta get my act



Scott:

together.



Scott:

And so how do I, how do I mature intellectually?



Scott:

How do I get my act together? I thought, okay, maybe there's something here



Scott:

that I have to investigate in the form of philosophy.



Scott:

And it took me a while.



Scott:

I won't tell the whole story.



Scott:

I'll tell the short version.



Scott:

And I saw the back of the Early Iran and it



Scott:

said, it's really playing up Iran.



Scott:

It's talking about these amazing novels, the Fountain Head and Atlas Shrugged.



Scott:

And I'm like, okay, let's see what that's about.



Scott:

So I just, you know, headed over to the public library and I see the COVID of, of the



Scott:

Fountain Head and it's this dramatic, you know, weird art deco like thing with the



Scott:

architect looking up the skyscraper.



Scott:

And I'm like, hey, that's kind of cool.



Scott:

And so, all right, start reading it, right?



Scott:

And all of us, that first reading experience of on it blew me away.



Scott:

I couldn't believe it.



Scott:

I, I'M like, I can't believe it.



Scott:

This is exactly what I need.



Scott:

It was unbelievable, as I like to joke, it was Howard Roark that prevented me from becoming



Scott:

an architect because, you know, I was.



Scott:

I was studying civil engineering, and I didn't



Scott:

think it was that interesting.



Scott:

That was kind of leaning towards architecture.



Scott:

Funny thing happened about Howard Rourke.



Scott:

And I said, that's not for me.



Scott:

I'm gonna go into philosophy.



Scott:

I'm gonna go.



Scott:

And then.



Scott:

And I became interested at that point and



Scott:

what's going on?



Scott:

Where did this Iron man character come from?



Scott:

And I said to myself, well, let me study the history of philosophy.



Scott:

Let's see, you know, what's going on.



Scott:

And now, immediately after reading the



Scott:

valentine, like, immediately, I just went right back to the bookshelf and I picked up



Scott:

Atlas Shrugged and started in on that.



Scott:

Right. So I was like, I couldn't wait and pour through that.



Scott:

It was absolutely hectic reading.



Scott:

I couldn't believe it.



Scott:

And. And that.



Scott:

That right there, of course, is the magnum



Scott:

opus.



Scott:

It's just incomparable in so many regards.



Scott:

And that was.



Scott:

That's it.



Scott:

I was that.



Scott:

That I was.



Scott:

I was.



Scott:

I knew.



Scott:

That's what I. This is it.



Scott:

This.



Scott:

These are the right answers.



Scott:

And. And then, you know, there's mention of Aristotle in there.



Scott:

There's some really interesting things, right? So I'm like, okay, we're.



Scott:

What happened? Where did the Sein Rank character come from?



Scott:

And what's the.



Scott:

What's the background story to this?



Scott:

And why are her ideas so good? And why have I never heard them from pretty



Scott:

much anybody else up until now?



Scott:

And that was a. That was a tough slog.



Scott:

The history of philosophy is not fun.



Scott:

I mean, I enjoyed studying the Presocratics and then the rise of Plato and Aristotle.



Scott:

I found that totally fascinating.



Blair:

Sure.



Scott:

But then, you know, this.



Scott:

Each, you know, a lot of bad stuff.



Scott:

And then the modern period and human Descartes and then finally into Kant and Hegel and Marx



Scott:

as absolutely dismal.



Scott:

And so it was very difficult to study that topic.



Scott:

And I. And then I asked myself the question, well, what is this story in relation to the



Scott:

history of the world?



Scott:

I don't see it.



Scott:

I don't see what is the interface between



Scott:

these stories.



Scott:

And so I was very much aware that I don't really know history at that point.



Scott:

I really had, you know, memorized and forgot.



Scott:

And so therefore, that became my new interest, and I started studying that when I finished



Scott:

my.



Scott:

My engineering degree, went out, got a job.



Scott:

I was working and stuff like that.



Scott:

But I started studying history part time in college and that was, that was a disaster in



Scott:

the sense that everything that I was being told to learn was just unbelievably tedious



Scott:

and useless.



Scott:

And I was really upset by that.



Scott:

And I didn't know what, what I could do with



Scott:

this subject.



Scott:

It felt overwhelmingly complex and there



Scott:

didn't seem to be any application of philosophy at all.



Scott:

So how, how could I solve that?



Scott:

And, and I think I'm giving you a bad timeline because I know that it's earlier than 96.



Scott:

The reason why I know that is because I'm thinking more along the lines of 94.



Scott:

Because I went to my first Objectivist conference in 1997, which was a Lyceum



Scott:

conference in Orange County, California.



Scott:

I was there at that conference.



Scott:

Yeah, where are you?



Scott:

So at that conference, the highlight for me there were a lot of highlights that was quite.



Scott:

Back then we had some heavyweights really doing some great stuff.



Scott:

But the highlight of that conference for me was John Ridbath.



Scott:

And John Ridpath gave a lecture on Locke and the American Revolution versus Rousseau and



Scott:

the French Revolution.



Scott:

Oh boy, did that, that right there was super



Scott:

exciting.



Scott:

And so I also happened to met my wife at that



Scott:

conference.



Scott:

I'm sure a lot of people have similar experiences.



Scott:

Anyway, we, we had a long distance relationship there for a while and, and, and



Scott:

she was pushing me to ask me figure things out about my life and where I was going.



Scott:

And I said, well, I'm, I think I'm in transition to becoming a historian.



Scott:

I wasn't absolutely convinced.



Scott:

And, and I said okay.



Scott:

And, and she pushed me and, and ultimately I said, you know what, I think what I need to do



Scott:

is go study with Redpath.



Scott:

And lucky for me he still was teaching and I think he retired in 2002.



Scott:

So I, I headed to Toronto and I went to study with him for two years, two, 2000 to 2002.



Scott:

And that was big in a number of regards.



Scott:

It took economics from him.



Scott:

We studied intellectual history.



Scott:

That was, wow, there was some wonderful stuff there.



Scott:

And, but as good as that was the pivotal moment for me, which looking back on it was



Scott:

just a really huge moment for me, historiographically speaking speaking, the big



Scott:

moment was 9 11.



Scott:

I remember being on campus that morning walking through, it happened to be the



Scott:

economics walking through and there was a student lounge there with a big screen tv,



Scott:

walking from the parking lot to, you know, the social science building, whatever, and there



Scott:

you go, you're seeing the first of the tower smoking and pretty soon the other one's



Scott:

getting struck.



Scott:

And that, of course, was extremely traumatic.



Scott:

And that's, you know, that's for me, for my



Scott:

parents generation, it's like, where were you when JFK was assassinated?



Scott:

Everybody remembers, right? And for me, it's two things.



Scott:

It's the Challenger disaster in 1987 and 9 11.



Scott:

Those are the moments in my life where I



Scott:

remember exactly where I was when those things happened.



Scott:

Never forget.



Scott:

But more than that, I was on my way to a



Scott:

history class.



Scott:

And so.



Scott:

And of course, all the students were on their



Scott:

phones.



Scott:

There was a big buzz.



Scott:

Everybody was very upset.



Scott:

And I remember thinking, well, so here we are in academia.



Scott:

Here we are in the place where we have these wise men, these people that are learned and



Scott:

that are going to give us insight into what's happening.



Scott:

And so there was, you know, there were some questions about what's going on.



Scott:

And the historian in that class basically said, you know, that what we need to do now is



Scott:

we need to study the terror, because we were studying the French Revolution, not.



Scott:

Not the war, not, not the terrorism of 9 11, but the.



Scott:

The terror of 1793.



Scott:

Yeah, I think that's what he was saying.



Scott:

History is the study of the past.



Scott:

And I have nothing to teach you.



Scott:

I cannot tell you anything about the world we



Scott:

live in.



Scott:

I can only tell you about the France of the



Scott:

late 18th century that I've been studying my whole life.



Scott:

And that's all I know.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

So this was a really tragic confession on his part, but it stuck with me for the rest of my



Scott:

life.



Scott:

And so then, you know, graduating from that, I



Scott:

went on to teach at a school you've probably heard of in Southern California called Van



Scott:

Damme Academy.



Scott:

And I started teaching history there to young kids.



Scott:

And that was the most wonderful experience of all in so many regards, including the fact



Scott:

that it didn't work.



Scott:

There was a problem which was hard for me to



Scott:

accept and to identify, which, as it turns out, fundamentally stemmed from the same



Scott:

problem that I was experiencing in college, which is I hadn't yet figured out that the



Scott:

past divorced from the present, doesn't mean anything, has no objective value.



Scott:

And so I was a good storyteller.



Scott:

I got a good sense of humor.



Scott:

I had the kids laughing and rolling around, and I had them loving, you know, everything



Scott:

from Martin Luther to Martin Luther King Jr.



Scott:

And so they were fine with all that.



Scott:

They enjoyed it, but it didn't stick, and it



Scott:

didn't produce results for them that I could really point to and say, yeah, this is a



Scott:

better person because they're studying History, and they actually know it and it has



Scott:

significant intellectual outcomes for them in the long run.



Scott:

And so I just began to challenge this question of what is it and why isn't history working?



Scott:

And after being there for a few years, I started teaching homeschoolers as a private



Scott:

business.



Scott:

And that's now what I do with my company,



Scott:

that's called Knowable World, with my partner Heather Schwartzen.



Scott:

And on that journey, just at some point became an epiphany and that the problem is the lack



Scott:

of past, present integration and how do we achieve that.



Scott:

And just, you know, there's just so much to say about that.



Scott:

But fundamentally that's how I came to my view of present centrism.



Scott:

So there you go.



Scott:

That's kind of the story it wound up.



Blair:

Wow, that's great though.



Blair:

Thank you for that.



Martin:

Great story, Scott.



Martin:

And thanks for being here.



Martin:

You are here and you're making history now, so.



Scott:

Well, I hope so.



Scott:

I hope so in more than one sense.



Scott:

I mean, I hope that not only am I helping people to learn history in many regards, for



Scott:

the first time and hopefully as many students as possible, our goal at Noble World is to



Scott:

become the, literally the best place in the world for parents anywhere to help their



Scott:

children learn history and discover the true power of history.



Scott:

And I think we have, we're working on it.



Scott:

It's tough project, but we're working on



Scott:

scaling it and really reaching a really huge audience.



Scott:

And I think at some point, because it's overwhelmingly the best curriculum there is,



Scott:

that it will take over the homeschooling market and from there we'll try to get into



Scott:

the private schools.



Scott:

And by then hopefully public school will have been abolished, so we won't have to worry



Scott:

about that.



Scott:

So anyway, we'll see.



Blair:

Do you have a, do you have a web address for Knowable World or.



Scott:

Well, there you go.



Scott:

It's, it's two words, of course, Knowable



Scott:

World, but you mash them together and that's it.



Scott:

Knowable world dot com.



Scott:

That's it.



Scott:

Okay.



Scott:

And we have live classes and we have recorded



Scott:

classes.



Scott:

And so, I mean, if you can't pull your kid out of public school, then you better be putting



Scott:

your kid in the Knowable World recordings in order to give them the antidote to all the



Scott:

irrationality of history and social studies today.



Scott:

That's the absolute best place you can do it.



Scott:

Our curriculum is literally From K to 12.



Scott:

So in other words, we have a program called History Detectives, which is the first year of



Scott:

a three year program that's still under Development.



Scott:

But history Detectives, level one is complete.



Scott:

It's basically a lesson, lesson a week for the youngest possible kids.



Scott:

Not every child at a kindergarten level is going to be ready, but some are.



Scott:

And I've had the pleasure of teaching 5 year olds that are totally ready.



Scott:

So it's sometimes the case that they're not ready until 6, 7, 8.



Scott:

But, you know, basically you just start it when they're ready.



Scott:

But we start at the kindergarten level and then the live classes and recordings are for



Scott:

basically for about second or third graders on up.



Scott:

And we have an elementary program and a junior senior high program.



Scott:

And for the first time ever this year, I'm teaching something called the advanced history



Scott:

program, which is for my absolute elite students because we're graduating students up



Scott:

through the ranks and they're just getting so good at history.



Scott:

It's unbelievable.



Scott:

And so they're pushing me to the highest



Scott:

levels of requirements for me and my own learning.



Scott:

It's basically far beyond anything you can get in college, but they're doing it in high



Scott:

school, so.



Scott:

So, yeah, that's our project Noble World.



Blair:

I'm so, I mean, I'm just.



Blair:

I think Covid exposed the public education



Blair:

scam so completely that.



Blair:

And I know homeschooling has just exploded to



Blair:

like, from like 3% of, you know, parents to 20%.



Blair:

And that's continuing to grow from the COVID debacle.



Scott:

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to measure.



Scott:

It's hard to measure.



Scott:

It's certainly constantly growing.



Scott:

That's great for a variety of reasons.



Scott:

And the, you know, the challenge for homeschoolers is, of course, that, well,



Scott:

they've got to now be parents and they've got to, you know, they have two incomes or how are



Scott:

they going to manage that?



Scott:

It's always difficult.



Scott:

My wife and I homeschooled our son.



Scott:

He's now a senior and just finishing up.



Scott:

And so we know how hard that is, and it's very difficult a lot of the times.



Scott:

And of course, history, who, who actually knows history.



Scott:

And so that's a lot of what homeschoolers do, is they try to find experts, resources out



Scott:

there where they can find somebody to do subjects that they themselves are not equipped



Scott:

to do.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

And so that's exactly what Knowable World is



Scott:

about.



Scott:

I know that there's no way that you, as a



Scott:

homeschooling mom or dad, are going to have time to not only figure out the entire



Scott:

curriculum and manage the day and what.



Scott:

And study history and teach it to your kid properly.



Scott:

Thank you.



Scott:

I've been studying history for 20 years, more



Scott:

than 20 years.



Scott:

And I know how hard it is and that's been full



Scott:

time.



Scott:

Thank you very much.



Scott:

So, so no, it's not going to happen.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

So that's why it's nice that there are experts



Scott:

like myself.



Scott:

You know, I'll just give a shout out here to Luke Travers, who's, who runs a program called



Scott:

Literature at our house.



Scott:

And so, so you know, there's another example



Scott:

of, okay, you want to have some literature, you want to have some poetry, you want to have



Scott:

a resource like that, great.



Scott:

So you just hire an expert.



Scott:

And so knowable world is your place where



Scott:

basically history check, you're done.



Scott:

You get your kid in there as soon as you can



Scott:

and you're done.



Scott:

That's taken care of.



Scott:

The whole thing is taken care of.



Scott:

And in most cases, you know what I like the best is when parents are invest, are really



Scott:

invested in their child's education.



Scott:

It's quite frequently the case that they will just sit in and they'll listen and they're



Scott:

like, wow, this is what I was supposed to learn when I was a kid.



Scott:

Wonderful time being in my elementary class because that's about the level of adults when



Scott:

it comes to history.



Scott:

So you may as well just get in on it, right,



Scott:

and just listen and learn.



Blair:

Not surprised in the slightest.



Blair:

Yeah, I'm sure it's fantastic.



Blair:

Go ahead.



Martin:

I was thinking of asking that do you still have courses for adults and older



Martin:

people?



Scott:

Do I still have.



Scott:

I have recorded classes for adults now.



Scott:

I recently finished the, the course that accompanies the History of Tomorrow.



Scott:

So I have a number of course and all recorded.



Scott:

I don't have plans for any live classes at the moment, but basically I've got a present



Scott:

centric history of Russia, of China, of Europe and of the United States.



Scott:

Those are available in.



Scott:

And so those are, those are recorded classes.



Scott:

And then I've got a recorded class in fact,



Scott:

two of them on the history of Church Tomorrow.



Scott:

And I've also got one on the History of Now I shouldn't fail to mention.



Scott:

So that's really for most adult readers, the History of Now and the History of Tomorrow.



Scott:

That's a very deliberate sequence of two books.



Scott:

You can't read the History of Tomorrow without having read the History of Now for reasons



Scott:

which are explained in the, in the second of the two books.



Scott:

And so basically there is a, there's a, there's the History of Now as a book.



Scott:

And yeah, for anybody that's really interested in understanding what's going on in that book.



Scott:

The History of Now course is a recorded session with 10 lectures, which is absolutely



Scott:

critical to gain insight into how it works and how you can help yourself reprogram your own



Scott:

thinking about history and make your own thinking present, centric.



Scott:

And then the History of Tomorrow is the next level.



Blair:

And those are all available through nobleworld.com.



Scott:

Those are available through Noble World.



Scott:

Yeah.



Scott:

All right.



Scott:

And if anybody wants to reach out to me, I don't know if you have notes or how exactly



Scott:

the listing podcast goes, but you can.



Scott:

You can just reach out to me at Mr. Powell.



Scott:

M r p l o, Mr. Powelloworld dot com.



Scott:

Anybody listening can just shoot me an email if they want to follow up on that.



Blair:

That's great.



Blair:

Thank you.



Scott:

Go.



Blair:

More quick things, if I may.



Blair:

And then, Martin, you can.



Blair:

You can have it.



Blair:

But you still reading science fiction today at



Blair:

all? Are you too busy or.



Scott:

Yeah, I mean, I do, but I'm writing science fiction, so I'm.



Scott:

Yeah, yeah.



Scott:

Thank you.



Scott:

Thank you for the segue into that.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

So thanks.



Blair:

That.



Martin:

I was thinking of asking that.



Martin:

So that's good.



Martin:

How many points are.



Scott:

Yeah, I mean, like I said, when I was younger, I loved Isaac Asimov, the robot



Scott:

novels, the foundation series.



Scott:

Those were my top favorites.



Scott:

And so that's always kind of been in.



Scott:

In the back, in.



Scott:

In my deep, in my subconscious.



Scott:

I reread them as adults multiple times.



Scott:

As an adult multiple times.



Scott:

And over the past, I'm gonna say, five to 10



Scott:

years, I've just been taking notes and prepping to write my own novels.



Scott:

I've got two novels planned, but now, actually, everything's changed.



Scott:

The fourteen Points is probably actually gonna have to be a trilogy because I've got so much



Scott:

to write.



Scott:

But that's the title of the novel that I'm writing.



Scott:

It's called the 14 points.



Scott:

And the obvious source of the title of the



Scott:

book is that Woodrow Wilson, announced in 1918, made a proclamation that is known as the



Scott:

Fourteen Points.



Scott:

And it has to do with America becoming the world police power, effectively.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

And so, without spoiling too much, right.



Scott:

In my time travel novel, that ain't gonna happen.



Scott:

And so there's going to be.



Scott:

You know, one of the things I particularly



Scott:

enjoyed about the foundation series was that effectively, historians are the heroes.



Scott:

They're psycho historians.



Scott:

Okay, but they're historians, if you ask me.



Scott:

And so Harry Seldon is a historian.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

So historians are the heroes.



Scott:

Well, in my novel, historians are the heroes.



Scott:

So it's going to take a combination of a brilliant physicist And a brilliant historian



Scott:

to figure out how to save the world effectively.



Scott:

So anyway, anybody that's interested can just go to the 14 points reading group on Facebook



Scott:

and there's a trickle there.



Scott:

It's. I'm just gonna pick up again.



Scott:

I'm. And I've got the 14 points channel on YouTube where I'm talking about the way things



Scott:

are going there.



Scott:

And.



Scott:

And the first chapter is available in the first draft.



Scott:

I have to say it's being massively edited at this point.



Scott:

So. Because I'm not a natural fiction writer so I've got a lot of skills to develop and so



Scott:

I'm really massively editing.



Scott:

I've written 250 pages and I know that there's a tremendous amount of work that needs to be



Scott:

done to fix it up as a fiction story.



Scott:

So.



Scott:

So. But it's.



Scott:

Yeah, it's still fun.



Scott:

I still love science fiction, of course, and I'm hoping to make a science fiction



Scott:

masterpiece, which is of course a tall order for a first novel.



Scott:

But I'm gonna try to do it right off the bat.



Blair:

Wait for the fences, swing for the fence.



Martin:

Yeah, that's good.



Scott:

Waiting for the fence.



Martin:

Have you talked to Warren Fahey? We have had this guest.



Martin:

He's writer.



Scott:

No, I have not.



Scott:

So thank you for the mention.



Scott:

I'll have to think about that.



Blair:

Yeah, I just let me throw in that this is my.



Blair:

The gentleman named Jack Vance is my favorite science fiction author and he wrote the first



Blair:

book I ever read by him is still my favorite.



Blair:

It was called in paperback, it's called To



Blair:

Live Forever.



Blair:

And the Kindle version is called Clarges, which is the city.



Blair:

This all takes place in C L A R G E S. So I highly recommend that to you and Martin.



Blair:

And let me nitpick a little bit more about.



Blair:

One of the things that's always bothered me is.



Blair:

Well, when I think about it, the division of North Korea and South Korea, I don't think



Blair:

that's ever gonna be united because the border of North Korea is China.



Blair:

And if it's going to be one way, it'll probably be swallowed up.



Blair:

But I hope that doesn't happen.



Blair:

What do you any thought on that?



Blair:

Because I. I have not gotten to yourself.



Scott:

Yeah, I mean I have a chapter on Korea in the History of Tomorrow.



Scott:

And you know, basically, if you want the short answer, you know, the Korean quote unquote



Scott:

unification process is the same thing as the Middle east peace process.



Scott:

These are total, you know, BS neologisms which are never going to happen unless one side



Scott:

Basically destroys the other.



Scott:

And so, yeah, basically it's a, it's a just a



Scott:

joke.



Scott:

And so it's not going to happen.



Scott:

The jucha ideology of North Korea is literally



Scott:

the.



Scott:

It's, it's not really communist, it's in fact



Scott:

much more akin to Nazism than just about anything else in the world today.



Scott:

And, and so it's a virulently ultra nationalist ideology.



Scott:

And there's another problem for Korea, and that is that Korea, like Japan and now China,



Scott:

is facing a demographic cliff.



Scott:

And so this is a country which is going to



Scott:

begin to strain rapidly.



Scott:

And so if they don't get their act together and start procreating, they're in big trouble.



Scott:

And so that's another factor over the next couple generations that these countries are in



Scott:

big trouble.



Scott:

And.



Scott:

Yeah, so Korea, no unification.



Scott:

No, that's not, that's not.



Scott:

The only, the only possible thing is something completely unpredictable, like a coup within



Scott:

the, you know, the highest ranking families in the strangely ideological, you know,



Scott:

aristocracy of North Korea.



Scott:

But there's no reason to expect that that would produce any really positive results.



Scott:

So. No, I don't see it.



Scott:

I don't see it.



Scott:

But basically, you know, North Korea is, is checkmated.



Scott:

Right.



Scott:

There's nothing they can do.



Scott:

They know that if they make the wrong move, they cease to exist.



Scott:

So that's the story.



Scott:

It's, there's really, there's almost nothing



Scott:

to it.



Scott:

It's tragic for the people there, but hey, if



Scott:

they want better, they got to get their act together.



Blair:

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we've been talking to historian Scott Powell and he



Blair:

has three great books out and he's working on fourth.



Blair:

Scott, thanks for manning the foxhole with us.



Scott:

Been great.



Scott:

Thank you.



Blair:

All right, Martin, you want to add anything?



Blair:

Are you good or.



Martin:

I'm all.



Martin:

I'm all set.



Martin:

So we will do a follow up and we'll talk more about how to support your work, Scott, and



Martin:

support our show.